Curse

Green_Lantern · Jun 15, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

ok, so I decided to remake my ranger, checked out the "flameslinger" template and thought, hey that looks like fun, I wanna try that.
Got greater conflageration at the last mission, then realized it isnt needed for the build, all it needs is a fiery bowstring and the fire dmg works the same, so im wondering, why waste the elite on conflageration? Am i missing something? Only use i can see is wearing a drakescale armor, to reduce damage from pesky fighters. enlighten me?

/Lantern

MrWho · Jun 16, 2005, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Honestly, Greater Conflag is the most pointless skill ever. All it takes is a few good hits and it dies, leaving you screwed without your fire damage in mid-battle.

_jew

Green_Lantern · Jun 16, 2005, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJew

Honestly, Greater Conflag is the most pointless skill ever. All it takes is a few good hits and it dies, leaving you screwed without your fire damage in mid-battle.

_jew

sure, but my point is, with a fiery bowstring, you got your fire weapon, and the build works exactly the same as with conflageration.

JYX · Jun 16, 2005, 01:42 PM // 13:42

People enjoy the zealous bowstring...a lot.

MrWho · Jun 16, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green_Lantern

sure, but my point is, with a fiery bowstring, you got your fire weapon, and the build works exactly the same as with conflageration.

I know, I was just backing up what you were saying. Only reason I'd really drop an elemental string was for a nice % sundering, 4/5 leech vamp, or a zealous and if I was using a Barrage build.

_jew

Davis · Jun 16, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Lighting damage is the best it ignores amror. And how many ppl have amror angst it say maybe rangers or an ele + i would say ice string is 2nd. Zealous bow string is dumb on anything outside a short bow to me and with tigers fury and it should fit in ur build logically. If ur that strapped for energy why not use the energy elite provided in the ranger build. Vamp? boo =/ you dont need vamp in the hall thats what 3 monks are for. Just my 2 dimez.

Kishin · Jun 16, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davis

Lighting damage is the best it ignores amror. And how many ppl have amror angst it say maybe rangers or an ele + i would say ice string is 2nd. Zealous bow string is dumb on anything outside a short bow to me and with tigers fury and it should fit in ur build logically. If ur that strapped for energy why not use the energy elite provided in the ranger build. Vamp? boo =/ you dont need vamp in the hall thats what 3 monks are for. Just my 2 dimez.

Um, Conjure Lightning does NOT have armor penetration/ignore armor. This is what people keep erroneously assuming because all the Air attack spells have armor penetration People just use it because generally, no one has armor that gives bonuses to lightning damage except Rangers and Elementalists (If they're wearing Aeromancer). So if you're shooting a 60 AL caster with your shocking bow, he still has 60 AL.

And Marksman's Wager, the energy giving Ranger elite, can turn against you very quickly, because every time you miss, you lose 10 energy. So if you're a) blinded or b) (and this much more likely) shooting at someone with a defensive buff up, like say Aegis (Which most protection monks run), you basically have a 50% chance of stabbing yourself in the face.

And the best trait of the Vampiric String/Hilt/Haft etc. al isn't the healing aspect, its the life steal as extra damage. It's like having a permanent attack buff.

That said, I'd just like to say that I think the Flame Slinger template is awful. It wastes slots on Power Shot, Troll Unguent, an elite on Greater Conflag (Which is bleh unless you could convince your entire team to run Mantra of Flame), and not to mention a whole bunch of attribute points just to pick up some limp wristed conjure that is outclassed by another skill already in the build (Kindle). Storm chaser is acceptable, Pin Down is a staple (pardon the pun, heh) and Dual Shot + Kindle arrows is a good PvE combo for damage, but other than that, someone should take a big stamp to that build and label it "How not to play a Ranger"

BBrecht · Jun 16, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

A whole bunch of truth.

This man is henceforth my brother, and may speak in my place.

Green_Lantern · Jun 17, 2005, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishin

Um, Conjure Lightning does NOT have armor penetration/ignore armor. This is what people keep erroneously assuming because all the Air attack spells have armor penetration People just use it because generally, no one has armor that gives bonuses to lightning damage except Rangers and Elementalists (If they're wearing Aeromancer). So if you're shooting a 60 AL caster with your shocking bow, he still has 60 AL.

And Marksman's Wager, the energy giving Ranger elite, can turn against you very quickly, because every time you miss, you lose 10 energy. So if you're a) blinded or b) (and this much more likely) shooting at someone with a defensive buff up, like say Aegis (Which most protection monks run), you basically have a 50% chance of stabbing yourself in the face.

And the best trait of the Vampiric String/Hilt/Haft etc. al isn't the healing aspect, its the life steal as extra damage. It's like having a permanent attack buff.

That said, I'd just like to say that I think the Flame Slinger template is awful. It wastes slots on Power Shot, Troll Unguent, an elite on Greater Conflag (Which is bleh unless you could convince your entire team to run Mantra of Flame), and not to mention a whole bunch of attribute points just to pick up some limp wristed conjure that is outclassed by another skill already in the build (Kindle). Storm chaser is acceptable, Pin Down is a staple (pardon the pun, heh) and Dual Shot + Kindle arrows is a good PvE combo for damage, but other than that, someone should take a big stamp to that build and label it "How not to play a Ranger"

hehe so my assumptions of its uselessness wasn't completely off then

Davis · Jun 17, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Lighting damage ignores armor if you dont have lighting elemental defense armor. So yeah some classes have armor aganist elemental damage some dont. Its like why do poeple throw down winter and then throw down ward aganist elements so everything is cold damage and they can protect angist it. Not every1 has lighting amror so yes and no on your line there. As for marksman's wager its not gonna bite you in the butt if A you have to have high expertise 2nd YOU LOOK AT THE STUPID icons below the character and see if they have a buff. Also comeon dood hello use it with precsion shot : If Precision Shot hits, you strike for +10-18 damage. Precision Shot cannot be "Blocked" or "Evaded." This action is easily interrupted. I mean comeon. Anything in the hands of an idiot is gonna not go well. Marksman's wager + Precesion shot = energy no way it can be stopped. And also anoter worldwide assumption is that vampire and zealous steal instead of just give you health or energy. There is a diff between a hit giving you health and a hit taking health and giving it to you. As far as I heard its a hit that gives you health not a hit that takes health and gives it to you. As far as I know of course. So reconsider the marskman's wager all the skills take thinking i mean comeon they dont put skills up for crap.

Cymmina · Jun 17, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Greater Conflagaration is more than just doing fire damage. It's about converting *all* physical damage to fire damage. When you consider that ranger armor has +30 AR vs elements and one gives an additional +15 AR vs fire damage, you end up with effective 125 AR vs physical attacks (70 AR + 45 AR vs fire). Stack Mantra of Flame on top of that, and you're tanking better than any W/Mo.

That is why it is elite. But, if all you want is fire damage to make Conjure Flame work, then a fiery bowstring can free up that elite spot for something else that suits your fancy.

Dzan · Jun 17, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davis

Lighting damage ignores armor if you dont have lighting elemental defense armor. So yeah some classes have armor aganist elemental damage some dont.

You're incorrect. That would be like saying fire damage ignores armor unless you have fire elemental defense.

Mango Midget · Jun 17, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green_Lantern

sure, but my point is, with a fiery bowstring, you got your fire weapon, and the build works exactly the same as with conflageration.

The point of this spell is because ranger armor is better against elemental attacks and a warrior comes charging in to kill the ranger and the ranger gets added armor due to the fire damage instead of physical.

MetasynMan · Jun 17, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Lightning damage on the bow does not "ignore" armor. Even with air elementalist spells, only some of them have 25% armor penetration - still not "ignoring" armor. Granted, that's more penetration than any other element, but lightning by itself does not get an automatic armor penetration. That being said, however, there are very few foes in PvE that are strong against lightning, because their armor is usally geared against either fire or cold, giving the impression that lightning does more damage. Which it does, when comparing your shock strings to your fire strings against a foe with fire resistance like hydras.

Davis · Jun 17, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetasynMan

Lightning damage on the bow does not "ignore" armor. Even with air elementalist spells, only some of them have 25% armor penetration - still not "ignoring" armor. Granted, that's more penetration than any other element, but lightning by itself does not get an automatic armor penetration. That being said, however, there are very few foes in PvE that are strong against lightning, because their armor is usally geared against either fire or cold, giving the impression that lightning does more damage. Which it does, when comparing your shock strings to your fire strings against a foe with fire resistance like hydras.

HMMM! Stand corrected so what about PvP whats the better amor pene or lighting string?

Kishin · Jun 17, 2005, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davis

Lighting damage ignores armor if you dont have lighting elemental defense armor. So yeah some classes have armor aganist elemental damage some dont. Its like why do poeple throw down winter and then throw down ward aganist elements so everything is cold damage and they can protect angist it. Not every1 has lighting amror so yes and no on your line there. As for marksman's wager its not gonna bite you in the butt if A you have to have high expertise 2nd YOU LOOK AT THE STUPID icons below the character and see if they have a buff. Also comeon dood hello use it with precsion shot : If Precision Shot hits, you strike for +10-18 damage. Precision Shot cannot be "Blocked" or "Evaded." This action is easily interrupted. I mean comeon. Anything in the hands of an idiot is gonna not go well. Marksman's wager + Precesion shot = energy no way it can be stopped. And also anoter worldwide assumption is that vampire and zealous steal instead of just give you health or energy. There is a diff between a hit giving you health and a hit taking health and giving it to you. As far as I heard its a hit that gives you health not a hit that takes health and gives it to you. As far as I know of course. So reconsider the marskman's wager all the skills take thinking i mean comeon they dont put skills up for crap.

Wrong again. If you shoot a 80 AL warrior with a lightning damage bow, he doesn't mystically have 0 armor. He still has 80 AL and damage is calculated that way. If you were shooting him with a regular physical damage bow however, he'd have more armor, however, since Warrior armor gives an AL bonus against physical. As another example, if you shoot someone with 60 armor AL that has +5 against elements with that same bow, they have 65 ALf or damage purposes. If you shoot them with a physical bow, they have 60.

You're also wrong about Vampiric weapons. It IS a hit that STEALS life from your target and gives it you. Want proof? Get hit with a Vampiric weapon and look at the damage numbers over your head. You'll get something like this:
-45 , -5 (Life Stealing). Its a damage buff, that's why everyone loves it. Zealous weapons on the other hand, simply say 'Energy gain on hit: 1". So those don't steal energy, they just give you 1 energy per hit.

Also, Precision Shot cycles once every six seconds. So you fire it once with Marksman's Wager. Now what do you do while you wait for it to recharge? Stop attacking? Wager only lasts for 12 seconds, and frankly, there are more useful elites to be running.

Davis · Jun 17, 2005, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Wrong 6 seconds? Try lvl 12 expertise with maybe serpents quickness it wont take 6 seconds. I do agree tho i like other leet's better.

Davis · Jun 17, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

As a matter of fact 12 expertise it'll take say maybe 3 seconds + serpents quickness prob 2.33 seconds

Kishin · Jun 17, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Please explain to me how Expertise lowers the recharge time of a skill. Because it doesn't. Serpent's Quickness would make Precision shot recharge in about 4 seconds, but your Expertise doesn't do a damn thing to help you there.

Davis · Jun 18, 2005, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Anyway. Marksman's wager is good you just gotta know how to use it. I guess I am wrong learned a lotta things today lol. But w/ high expertise things do cost less so maybe in that case the wager is =p.